wings3d, silo or mirai -

[actarusprocyon]

Use Wings and make a donation,they really deserve it and after a month of use,you'll figure it was worth it.

Don't even think about buying Mirai this year and maybe the next,Nichimen is a record breaker as far as delays are concerned...I wouldn't be surprised if they changed the company name before it's even out.(Mirai 1.5) if that doesn't put you off,maybe the 6000$ price can. ;)

[qiv]

the problem is, that mirai is out of date (they say ;)) and its not very cheap ...
the main reason for buying mirai for charmodeling would be the integrated bones.
if you dont need bones for modeling, wings features should be enough ... i think the interface is quite likely - and the wingsdevs own mirai.
being in your place i would give wings a try, cause its free and there are recent updates.

[puzzledpaul]

<< and the wingsdevs own mirai. >>

If by this you mean the pple developing wings 'own' the intellectual rights to Mirai code etc - this is all news to me (and to Bjorn + co also, I suspect)

Where did you hear / see this?

pp


As regards the original question, try both Silo and Wings and see what you prefer - note the only reason am excluding Mirai is because you're unlikely to be able to get your hands on it.

[Elvis75k]

thanks for support!! I choose wings at the moment 'cos is free! :applause:

[actarusprocyon]

Good choice but I'm sure there will soon be a few more reasons as why you chose it,trust me :)

Am I right also to say a bone system implementation is 'being looked at'?

Personally,I don't mind if there isn't because that's wings' charm,I'm not saying it wouldn't be nice to have them but it wouldn't take anything away from it.

[DePingus]

Personally, I love modeling in Wings. And I hate modeling in Maya. On the other hand...I just recently tried the Silo demo and found the newest version (1.16) to be a very solid piece of software at a great price ($109). In fact, if Silo implements context sensitive right click menus and smart highlighting, I'm sold!

[qiv]

Originally posted by puzzledpaul
<< and the wingsdevs own mirai. >>

If by this you mean the pple developing wings 'own' the intellectual rights to Mirai code etc - this is all news to me (and to Bjorn + co also, I suspect) sry, if you missunderstood me.
i meant, they own a mirai version, afaik bjorn is able to use mirai. and he has acces to the mirai help, i heard once.

[actarusprocyon]

Does anyone agree that modeling-wise,Wings is closest to Mirai than Nendo?

[puzzledpaul]

<< bjorn is able to use mirai >>

Hmmm ... unsure about this, because of past difficulties associated with getting the trial / demo version registered etc.

Since Izware are still only a (very) small blip on the radar, I doubt that this situation has changed much - but I could be wrong :)

pp

[qiv]

Originally posted by actarusprocyon
Does anyone agree that modeling-wise,Wings is closest to Mirai than Nendo? i havent used mirai nor nendo, but afaik nendo is the little bro of mirai. so they started to build wings nendo like, but as soon as they had the nendo features they orientated the further developpement on mirai ... thats what i heard.

[puzzledpaul]

<< modeling-wise,Wings is closest to Mirai than Nendo >>

Closer - certainly, yes.

But this is irrelevant - imo - if you can't 'get on' with the Mirai / Wings / Ndo (non widget) approach then it's gotta be worth trying something else?

pp

[actarusprocyon]

Qiv:Yeah I dloaded wings back when it said 'I couldn't buy nendo,So I made my own' on the site but from what I've seen mirai and wings share functin nendo does not have...

[ihotep]

i 0wn j00 Mirai!!

:buttrock:

[BinarySoup]

Elvis75k wrote:
I have money to spend right now, so tell me what you think!

well if money is no objective (lucky bastard!) then maybe you should wait for Modo (or whatever it will finally be called), it seems to use a very open architecture allowing for it to mimic more or less any existing modeler using a script language, and also let you exchange more or less any part of the modeler using your own code, like for instance using your own or a 3rd party subdivision renderer etc. it's created by the guys that programmed lightwave's modeler, but is vastly improved from what I've seen. anyway, all this won't come without a price I fear, and this app, yet being simply a modeler/uv mapper from what I've seen, will likely cost a bundle :(

still it would be great to have a modeler with wings workflow, but with a decent subdivision renderer that allowed editing in realtime, I fear this is outside erlang performance though, so I doubt we'll see it in wings, the current proxy mode uses 1 subdivision and is not real-time, which makes it pretty useless to me atleast (the proxy mode that is, not WINGS!)

but wings is FREE, and it's a rocking good program!

[BazC]

"all this won't come without a price I fear, and this app, yet being simply a modeler/uv mapper from what I've seen, will likely cost a bundle :("

I suspect you're right :o( I've heard two rumours regarding Modo pricing, one said about £700 or about£350 if you already own Lightwave, the other said sub $1000

Pity, I like the look of it too :o(

It had better be pretty special if those prices are anything like accurate!

[actarusprocyon]

I personally stopped looking a while ago...Well,since I found wings, so now I can put a bit of money on a good animator-renderer :)

BTW:About Wings Not having Realtime editing in SubD mode,I heard The ALL so powerful Mirai CANNOT even cut a new edge on SubD'ed Geometry,meaning you need to add the edge/point or whatever,and then re-interp.-smooth the model,at least,Wings can do that in 'realtime' IICSS...

[JA-forreal]

Originally posted by Elvis75k
I've just get a demo of silo and just made a simple head, then i've get wings and yesterday i've bought the LOTR IITower extDVD and i see a timelapse of the gollum's head into mirai interface... Just wondering to know witch one is more character-oriented.... you understand me! I use maya to do all the model stuff, but when i get BPT i found a better way to do complex poly models.. I have money to spend right now, so tell me what you think!

Thanks!

To a 3d modeler it really doesn't matter, just as long as it helps you to model great things. Wings3d is more than enough for a hardcore modeler. I use a combo of Wing3d and Blender. WIngs3d can be a bit slow with highly detailed objects but Blender is as fast as lightening. Wings mesh topology is different than most other 3d apps and Blenders method is basically the same as Max , Maya or Lightwave. But Blenders method of modeling is going through some amazing changes to it's worth playing with.

Whatever you do, done sit around and do nothing. Practice your modeling. Use an app with edgeloop features. Edgeloop modeling is the best way of 3d modeling ever. All of the apps that I have mentioned have some form of edgeloop modeling. Get into it!

[dpvtank]

edgeloops are god-sent and they really do help out a lot...

I second JA-forreal. Use both wings and blender.

[Jb5k1]

Originally posted by ihotep
i 0wn j00 Mirai!!

:buttrock:

does that mean you have it?

i have the demo, which i found (miraculously) on some guys mirror site, yet i forget the site.

IT'S AMAZING!! the best, and it's out dated...

go figure:bounce:

[Ibox]

Well... from my stand point it goes like this...

At first I loved Wings, but was still obsessed about somebody implimenting widgits into it... to which, after x number of posting to said effect, well, let's just say I instantly became a very unpopular member eh ;)

but, in my usual good spirit, I said to myself... self, keep working at it... and thus I praticed my ass off, and still do eh... and yea, now I could care less if I ever saw another widgit again while box modeling... (thnx to PP, Baz etc for motivating me to view things differently )

Now that I know much more about this thing called box modeling, and I really must confess that after getting the hang of Wings not only was I hooked, but infact it is now impossible to even concider modeling in anything else... I open up C4D, Silo, etc. and attempt a model, then close whichever app in shear frustration, and open up Wings and really fly eh...

The only thing that I would really like to see implimented into Wings, other than a few plugin's and a decent render solution is... the ability to keep function active until a different tool is selected... in other words, if I am extruding from say a new cube, then I want to select and extrude, select and extrude again without having to right click each time to choose extrude etc... other than that, well... no matter if or not this will come to be, it is still only Wings for this kid... because it just plumb make sense is all :D

[Jb5k1]

You need a Mirai demo Ibox

You can do that stuff in it (most of it at least)

I WANT A RETAIL VERSION OF 1.5 TO COME OUT SO BAD:cry:

[dgud]

IBOX wrote: the ability to keep function active until a different tool is selected... in other words, if I am extruding from say a new cube, then I want to select and extrude, select and extrude again without having to right click each time to choose extrude etc... other than that, well... no matter if or not this will come to be, it is still only Wings for this kid... because it just plumb make sense is all

IBOX checkout default commands and
the shortcut D and shift-D.

D is default repeat command.

[puzzledpaul]

I - I'd also add the Cntrl+D repeat option to those mentioned by Dan -

The real 'killer' difference between this and the 2 older repeat functions (imo) is that it will let you repeat a full vector op - BUT - and it's a big BUT (well, not quite in the Jlo category) - will also allow you to choose a new vector and / or ref point.

Whilst I remember you not being overkeen on hotkeys - all I'll say is - (I'm no keyboard junkie or coder - 2 fingers only on a good day) such things as these repeat functions are well worth exploring / getting used to if you want to get away from the menu route.

It's also possible to define a default axis - then do an op with this (so it becomes a reference for a repeat op or being bound to a default command) etc etc.

pp


Glad you're sorted, btw - whatever app you've ended up using :)

[Xaint]

Originally posted by BinarySoup
Elvis75k wrote:

well if money is no objective (lucky bastard!) then maybe you should wait for Modo (or whatever it will finally be called), it seems to use a very open architecture allowing for it to mimic more or less any existing modeler using a script language, and also let you exchange more or less any part of the modeler using your own code, like for instance using your own or a 3rd party subdivision renderer etc. it's created by the guys that programmed lightwave's modeler, but is vastly improved from what I've seen. anyway, all this won't come without a price I fear, and this app, yet being simply a modeler/uv mapper from what I've seen, will likely cost a bundle :(

Where can I find info on Modo (or whatever)?

@dpvtank: Edgeloops are sent by Bay Raitt, some of his aspects are godlike tho... :)

[sketchyjay]

http://www.luxology.net/index_d.aspx

may come out in january

we'll see

[Ibox]

dgud, pp, oh wow, this is awesome guys... you can guess how much you have saved my workflow eh :D thanx eh :thumbsup:

pp, you have a memory like an elephant :D Yea, I have really learned to enjoy modeling in Wings... as you can already tell, I have a ton to learn yet for sure... thanx for sharing your knowledge with us eh... :) awsome dude... just awesome

[puzzledpaul]

<< like an elephant >>

More associated with the olfactory aspect of life (of interest to those specialising in scatology) - according to the kids.

<< ton to learn >>

Join the gang, fellow winger :)

pp


('Last axis', btw - refers to the last defined Default Axis - not one you've just used in the previous op - the basic LMB version of this can also be put on a hotkey (same one, say for Rotate | Last Axis across all 4 modes) )

[Bob C.]

What a great thread to have discovered, as a Wings3D newbie I can use all the bits and pieces I can find.

I have just figured out how to install YafRay and there was a small "issue" associated with it that might be of some use to other newbies too. From another Forum Fonte Boa wrote:

(In Wings3FD) The edit/plugin preferences/YafRay field only accept 30 characters. The default folder to install YafRay 0.0.5 is......c:\Program Files\Yafray. In that field, it's necessary to type c:\Program Files\YafRay\YafRay.exe (34 characters)!!!!!

Conclusion: here, i had to install YafRay 0.0.5 in a folder named c:\YafRay (to be possible type in that field c:\yafray\yafray.exe)(only 20 characters)!!!
----------------------------------------------------------
I also have 2 pages of Wings3D "HOT KEY ASSIGNMENTS" if anyone is interested I can post them here.

OK..New stuff for me in this tread, perhaps an explanation by someone or a page were I can read what this stuff is (means)?

widgits?

box modeling?

Wings3D mesh topology is different than most other 3d apps and Blenders method is basically the same as Max , Maya or Lightwave ..fascinating....I wonder what this means?

Edgeloop modeling(?) is the best way of 3d modeling ever.

Thanks!

Bob C.

[Ibox]

Hi Bob C... :)

widgits ... slang used by some to decribe the " manipulation handles " which many/most 3D apps use to employ interaction with an object...

when you really think about it, your selection is the real manip handle anyways, from there you simple apply the op.... and Wings is chaulk full of selection tools... for....

box modeling ... poly modeling from closed structured primitives... eg, extruding from a cube as in apposed to creating an extrusion from face created via poly line, spline and/or biezer... which in Layman actually also sort of decribes winged edge data structure , you will find more info on that subject in this thread for Winged Edge info (http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?threadid=28820&highlight=winged+edge)

edge loop modeling you can find some very helpful info on this subject here for edgeloop modeling (http://pub161.ezboard.com/fnendowingsmiraifrm3.showMessage?topicID=135.topic)

there are a ton more links, just do a search on the subject... perhaps PP or other members can shed some further light :)

hth's :)

[Bob C.]

Very nice Ibox...thanks for the ref. sites

I'm also looking at a program called Anim8or that does all three things (Model, render & animate) With a reasonable UI like Wings3D but perhaps not as powerful.

Bob C.

[thein]

Well I've been lucky enough to take a shot at mirai, and coming form a wings3d background to mirai is a really hard change.
First thing I've noticed, is that hotkeys are not customizable (or i have yet to learn how to do this)
After that, selection is a pain, for example i can't click and drag over a stretch of polys. I have to click one and then click the next. talk about carapal stress :(. (or i have yet to learn how to fix this)

also..the file > new object stuff just has to stop. I like my right click menu!
:D


so in the end the work flow was way too incredibly tedious for me to stick around in mirai world. I went back to my beloved wings :).
if anyone has any tips on how to fix any of the above lemme know. :)

[thomaspecht]

thein: in mirai you can select multiple elements by drawing a selection marquee on the geometry. press ctrl+lmb or ctrl+alt+lmb (selects regardless of backfacing).

file -> new = F5 hotkey

i didn't like that too but after diving a little deeper i found that considering that mirai is not only a modeller like wings or nendo, it just doesn't make sense to put all the stuff into a context menu.
open the dialog and check for yourself what kind of stuff can be added besides standard geometry primitives...

regarding hotkeys i believe to have a plugin/script somewhere that lets you customize them.


btw. i don't think that mirai can be compared to nendo & the bunch. it's not only a modeller but a whole package. what's really great and unmatched in any other app i've come across so far is the non linear approach to everything.
being able to edit geometry on an already rigged and skinned model (and NOT having to re-skin). change a skeleton of a skinned character on-the-fly. change geometry on a character with already set up displacements (and what a beautiful way of creating them!) and have the changes being applied to the morphs. have working paint and 3d paint integrated into the software... not to mention the interface which doesn't use thousands of meaningless icons, type-in-boxes and the bunch.
for me mirai is the only 3d package so far that was created with artists and not engineers in mind.

back on forum topic: does the current wings feature mirai-inspired magnet moves? that was really a missing feature last time i installed the software and i don't remember nendo having them.

[actarusprocyon]

About selection,didn't I read somewhere that Mirai has selection jumps?

Example:Select and edge or a collection,RMB to invoke the menu and choose "Select elements" LMB=Vertice,MMB=Edges,RMB=Faces

[thein]

GIJoe, I'm not sure if you understand what i mean, when I complained about the selection methods between mirai and wings. What I meant to say, by example is suppose you have a cube (dim: 6x6x6) and you want to select say the top 36 polys. All Id have to do in wings is one of the polys on the top and then just hold down the lmb and drag in a broad circle untill i nabbed all of them. In mirai, id have to click thirty six times. making a marquee is not good if you dont want to select the underlying polys.

[thomaspecht]

no you don't have to :) you can either draw a selection that does not include the backfaces or one that does. in your case i'd align my camera to the x or z axis (read: ortho viewport, left or front) and then draw my selection lasso.

and yes, selection jumping is possible

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