Realistic edges in Rhino (was 3ds max)

[sphere]

I think you'll find that chamfer is the equivelant in max for polys. There are fillet options for nurbs and shapes. Check out fillet and chamfer in the help docs.

[tilite]

awesome cheers man,

if antone wans to add would be greatly appreciated

[Bracer]

On The Contrary tilite, Rhino Fillet Tools Are About The Most Superior Fillet Technology[Algorithim Whatever You Want To Call It.] I've Come Across.

Talking Is Useless, I Show You, I Believe This Is Also What You Want Also.
That Amazing Fillet Effect.

http://www.cgchannel.com/gallery/viewimage.jsp?imgID=8479

The Method I Go About Doing It Is Using Fillet Edges [In Rhino] Then Export As IGES Files In Max And Render.
The Fillet Should Hold.
If Not Increase The Density Of The Output Mesh[Or Something, I Forgotten How Rhino Output To Max Already Had Not Been Using Rhino For A While].

Hope I Have Helped.

[TimWoods]

there is 'powernurbs' plugin, havent tried it, but i know someone who was beta testing it, and its very powerful. Works on nurbs, very much like Rhino.

But if your using standard max then, chamfer can do it to some degree. but it becomes messy if your not carefull.

[charleyc]

depending on how close you get to the objects fEdge is a good plugin for simulating chamfered/filleted edges at render time.

http://www.ddag.org/

[gonemad]

Depending on your output I would say that the standard max chamfer would work fine. If you're going to have a camera right close to an edge you might want to try something that would add more detail but I find for most distances chamfer creates the desired effect with minimal polygonal cost.

[DDS]

create a box, convert to edit poly, extrude some face, chamfer all the edges and apply meshsmooth with 2 iterations, it can't look better ^^U.

If you need more detail, just add a bit more detail to the boxes so the edges of the edge are more stretched :D

[tilite]

cheers guys... i kinda just blew off the chamfer tool in max coz if it is like rhino it will create a flat angled edge not a rounded edge... i hope u all return because i kinda wanna get as many opinions as possible on this.

bracer... and all rhino modelers this is directed towards u... if i can solve me problem in rhino so all i have to do in max is material/lights and render that would be ideal!!

so bracer left a link a a collection of ipod models http://www.cgchannel.com/gallery/vi....jsp?imgID=8479 (http://www.cgchannel.com/gallery/viewimage.jsp?imgID=8479) which were posted by 'bracer jack'... i wonder if theres a connection there (hmmm:thumbsup:) its a really nice image too... i suggest u all check it out even if u have no intention on posting :sad: . lil plug for u bracer

so yes... now the simple mass of an ipod is a box with filleted edges... a few more details and uve got a pretty good ipod. now lets say ... ok im in rhino now coz i cant really explian my problem within a few hundred words so ill lets my images speak for me.

[-Vormav-]

cheers guys... i kinda just blew off the chamfer tool in max coz if it is like rhino it will create a flat angled edge not a rounded edge... i hope u all return because i kinda wanna get as many opinions as possible on this.
After you've chamfered the first time, select the new edges (actually, max selects the new edges for you) and chamfer again. You can get edges to be as smooth as you want with the chamfer tool.

[tilite]

ok so ive created a simple box and taken a lower corner out to get something like this (below), this model is clean and 1 singular polysurface. so im wanting to smooth out the point. http://img9.imagevenue.com/loc148/th_4db_001.jpg (http://img9.imagevenue.com/img.php?loc=loc148&image=4db_001.jpg)

ok so then i take the fillet surface tool and apply it with a rather large fillet to show my point, and this is wha i come up with...

http://img13.imagevenue.com/loc280/th_5df_003.jpg (http://img13.imagevenue.com/img.php?loc=loc280&image=5df_003.jpg)

ok so yes i could use blend/loft/patch whatever to fix it up but they are unatural touchups... but i guess thats my question... can there be a effecient way of filleting complex corners to render tools like mention above irrelivant in this type of circumstance...

im going to attempt the ipod corner and see what i come up with.. if u know of anythign that might help... pls tell me

cheers guys

[tilite]

ok so u can click on the image above to get a better view at it... they are extreemly hi-res for this purpose. the illistartions could have been fixed but where overexagurated to give u an idea on how messy it is.

Vormaz... i understand what ur saying but wouldnt that increase the polycount dramatically?

i guess thats what i love about NURBS but it can get rather technical... anyway keep it comming i really wanna get this skill right

[tilite]

ok so i promise this will be the last post staright after another of mine :D

i jsut wanted to show what i ment by ussing tools to clean.
so left is what u get when u take he corner of the box and fillet the 3 surfaces together... right is waht u get when u trim them back and place a patch on to fill the gap.

http://img17.imagevenue.com/loc283/th_ef1_005.jpg (http://img17.imagevenue.com/img.php?loc=loc283&image=ef1_005.jpg) http://img6.imagevenue.com/loc6/th_3f8_006.jpg (http://img6.imagevenue.com/img.php?loc=loc6&image=3f8_006.jpg)

so this is what im asking.. if i was to have a more complex corner and things alot more complicated how do i do a fillet to create a smooth corner without ussing tools such as mention in previous posts... or is it even possible, must i use them??

[Light]

Hi,

You can also try the "Perfect Chamfer" of Chamfer X found @ flamefx.com.




Light

[Leionaaad]

You should think about using the chamfer tool repeatedly. You just use the numeric imput option, not the interactive tool (it tends to be more precise witht the numerical imput.). You should get some nice roundings. Then assign some smoothing groups...

[sphere]

I'm not sure how it works in Rhino, but it sounds like you are selecting the faces and then applying the chamfer.

Select the edges and then chamfer.

[Rens]

Another alternative would be to use subdivision modeling to get a smooth result.

Here is the cube, all the polygons are quads now (compare this to your cube), this is important for mesh-/turbosmooth to get the best result:

http://www.rensheeren.com/images/cgtalk/wr_cube.jpg

Now select all the edges that are at a corner and chamfer them very slightly. You should barely see the chamfer when viewing the whole cube.

Now when you apply a mesh-/turbosmooth with, say, two iterations you should see something like this:

http://www.rensheeren.com/images/cgtalk/sm_cube.jpg

Your poly count will go up, but the result looks good.


Hope this helps,

- Rens

[tilite]

ok awesome.. im extreemly satisfied with the respone and the actual level of advice thanks alot. i think we have the max thing corted but i do have another gquestion about that... 1 moment... lol.

i am still intreuged about the rhino possibility, so if anyone does know an answer for that can u pls still post!

ok so back to max :thumbsup: ... im now interested in ussing modifiers and tools or whatever else floats ur boat (trying to steer away from plug-ins - just generic max commands), is it possible to smooth just the edges of say everything in ur sceen? for example if i was to create a box and then chamfer the edges and then turbosmooth i would get a great result as posted by Rens Heeren (and other did sugesti it just he put in pictures :scream: and more detail, gj Rens...lol). so say could i select the box and in a few simple commands have the same result. (eliminating the extra work of selecting individual edges and chamfering them, repeat repeat repeat repeat repeat repeat repeat repeat... ect, until the sceen is complete)

i hope that was explained properly i was kinda on the phone talkign about essondons defeat on the weekend (AFL for all u lost ppl out there, if u dont know what it is... u need to!!) so a lil off target as u can imagine.

1 last thought, i asked to exclude plugins.. if u do know of a plug in please do mention it!! i hate contradicting myself:shrug:

[Rens]

Ah, yes I missed DDS's post. :blush:

[andrewjohn81]

Rhino doesn't do that great of a job creating fillets. Actually, of the better programs that do it, It is the worst. Even Maya does better, and it isn't even a surfacing program.

Rhino's surfaces are great for surfacing, but unless you know what good topology is, then it will give you bad results often.

Max hates trim surfaces. So, if you are going to import the iges file, then try and eliminate as many as possible. Mainly the corners of your fillets. Do not use the patch tool there. It doesn't need to be a trim surface. Simply do a sweep here, keeping tangency on the two rails.

Don't force a join on anything that won't join within your tollerance. Meaning, don't join edges if it comes up with a warning that you must increase the tollerance to do so. That creates horrible geometry.

Before exporting, make sure everything has been exploded and run the command "shrink" on everything. Then rejoin what you need. And joining does nothing for max. Onle the other importers.

Finally, if you want good results try using nPowerSoftware's power translator. If rhino is all you need then there is a cheaper version called power rhino to max. That's what we use. We no longer have to worry about trim surfaces.

--Oh, and an ipod has no complex surfaces. If you want to learn nurbs then try doing something like a mouse, telephone, or a milkjug. Make sure and try and do all of the small radii as well.

[tilite]

ok andrewjohn81 i quickly want to reply now in the hope i might catch u before u log off, concerning the import into max.

what ive been doing is simply mesh> export selected (.3ds file) then open max and import. ive had no problem yet... although i must admit i havent done it with a exteemly complex model... but i will be within the next few days so if i am doing this completly wrong or even if i can do it a slightly better way pls tell.

dont skimp on the tech talk either i really wanna total understand this..
cheers

[andrewjohn81]

No problem.
Nix the .3ds format. It has some horid limitations if you are going to do a complex model.

If you must use a poly format then use obj. For Rhino to max, without using expensive plugins, it is the best. It doesn't have polygon count limitations, like 3ds, and it doesn't force tris. Although, Rhino will give you quite a few tris.
When importing into max, make sure rotate model is unchecked. That is for Alias products, or other products who's y axis is up (IMO, the correct way for film).

If you can purchase it, or your project is short term, then get nPower translator. It keeps nurbs surfaces, which allow you to change the quality after it is in max. If you really need polys, then you can simply convert to editable poly at whatever quality you want. It does it almost instantaneously, even for complex models.

We have switched our workflow to almost all nurbs, except when something needs to deform. I have always preferred polys for that. Nurbs has a tendancy to change tessellation while deforming, and that sometimes is visible. You never find that out until it is too late.

When you want polys it gives your very good topology. Mostly quads, even on fillets, and boundaries (rounded corners) and they are, for the most part, evenly spaced.

The only bad thing about nPower we've noticed yet, is that UVW mapping is slightly slower than on polys. It's not horrible, but noticeable.

[tilite]

cheers andrew ill give the obj a go and if it ****s up u better find a way to block my PM's... lol

ok that was my own fault... a short lapse in what i was wanting to know and im sure ive lost everyone that might have answered seems they dont want to read about importing. so back to where i was.

understanding that some tools in rhino make for a very messy model (list them if u feel the world deserves to know them, coz i certianly dont knwo them all:sad:), so we want to avoid these tools and
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

i just attempted and obj export>import and came up with something unusual. i havent used the sweep tool before but i just read up on it and if itshould be fine but how will that hold up in the import. this example is from the file i had earlier with the patch to round the join...
http://img7.imagevenue.com/loc294/th_a22_002.jpg (http://img7.imagevenue.com/img.php?loc=loc294&image=a22_002.jpg)

so i did the obj thing and got it into max fine.. didnt really screw round with the options (left it as a NURBS model (instead of mesh probably the problem but hvnt checked mesh yet), so i wanted to know y this screwed itself, did it jsut take the veticies from rhino and join them with a solid rendering fillets irelivant??? ok anyway, this is what i came up with...

http://img11.imagevenue.com/loc224/th_9b9_001.jpg (http://img11.imagevenue.com/img.php?loc=loc224&image=9b9_001.jpg)

im going to fiddle more now but if u know whats going on or other tools such as sweep that may work tell me and end my pain. ill post back as soon as i got this figured

[tilite]

ok so i been fiddling:thumbsup: dont know y i put that emoicon there ive had no luck what soever and im planning on giving up for today and getting on with work that actually determines my mark at end of semester!

so i used the sweep2 tool to get what i thought would be fine but wasnt (obviously teething problems with the tool but im prety good with rhino and i just cant figure it out). and on the right is the obj import in max (with a copy of the sweep2 command because the box has formed again)
http://img13.imagevenue.com/loc247/th_156_003.jpg (http://img13.imagevenue.com/img.php?loc=loc247&image=156_003.jpg) http://img8.imagevenue.com/loc151/th_efe_004.JPG (http://img8.imagevenue.com/img.php?loc=loc151&image=efe_004.JPG)

so i went back and did a mesh (instead of NURBS) export and got this... now this was fine except for 3 things (high polycount[look further down post], unrenderable mesh, 3 surfaces didnt import)... so i have concerns with all of these... i know how to fix the render issue i jsut wanted to know y it does that, and explinations for the other two would actually help alot!
http://img15.imagevenue.com/loc6/th_0e2_005.jpg (http://img15.imagevenue.com/img.php?loc=loc6&image=0e2_005.jpg) http://img23.imagevenue.com/loc279/th_bb7_006.jpg (http://img23.imagevenue.com/img.php?loc=loc279&image=bb7_006.jpg)

so here is a close up of and untouched import corner and a turbosmooth (iterations 3) extreemly messy
http://img23.imagevenue.com/loc188/th_bb4_007.jpg (http://img23.imagevenue.com/img.php?loc=loc188&image=bb4_007.jpg) http://img16.imagevenue.com/loc191/th_b1e_008.jpg (http://img16.imagevenue.com/img.php?loc=loc191&image=b1e_008.jpg)

so any infomations would help

[andrewjohn81]

ok, about the sweep. Only sweep the corner piece. The others only need to be shrunk. Take a look at eh cv's every once in a while. The main thing is, any adjoining piece should have cv's that are matching it's partner. This isn't always possible, of course, but that is what you strive for.

If you are converting to obj directly in rhino, then don't worry about that as much. It isn't that big a deal. but you DO want the mesh option, and proceed like you would with the 3ds option.
The only reason I say it is better really is because 3ds has a limitation of something around 60k polys per object. It will get split up into a bunch of pieces if it is more than that, and you have no control over how it does that. Obj has no limit.

You are going to notice alot of double sided issues. It is often faster to simply check double sided on any materials that you need double sided. You can fix this in rhino. you can show surface direction and make sure they are all facing the same way. In many cases, most probably, it isn't worth it.

The smoothing problem you are having:
convert, first, to editable poly. It comes in as mesh. Go to faces. Select all (ctrl+A). Scroll down until you see smooth groups. Easiest way is just to select the number you want and hit autosmooth. The number you enter is the angle at which two faces meet. If you want to see an edge at a 45 degree angle, then use a number smaller than that. If you don't want to see an edge at an angle of 90 degrees, then enter a number larger than 90. Makes sense? Pretty easy stuff.

DO NOT USE TURBOSMOOTH on anything you didn't create in max. Don't use any form of smooth on something you didn't create in max. It may work ok on primitives, but not much else. It works good if you have uniform geometry, but pretty much any model of something real, unless it's something shaped like a box (table top) or something like that.
People use turbo smooth way too much anyway. It makes your render alot longer. If you can help it, don't add geometry to your scene. Especially if it needless, like in this case.

Your box example just has no normal information. That's why it is faceted.

If you don't want to use 2-sided materials just select the faces that appear black, and flip them. There is an option for that in the editeable poly rollouts menu somewhere. I forget the actual name. Usually, the faces will be grouped in element. That makes selecting them faster.

Good luck

[Bracer]

I Don't Wish To Contridict Anyone Here Since We Are All Here To Help.
Its In My Personal Opinion, I Underline "Personal Opinion". That Rhino Is Pretty Good At Filleting.

I Hope You Don't Hold Any Offend andrewjohn81, I Could Be Very Worst In Your Opinion :)

In This Case, I'am Not Saying Fillet Surface, I'am Into The Fillet "Edge".
Theres This Command In Rhino.

Just Select The Edges Then Enter Fillet Edges In The Command.

If There Is Any Error, The Best Bet Is The Fillet Is Too Big For The Geometry.
OR The Geometry Is Not "Joined" Yet. Max's Equivelent Of "Attach".

It Should Work Very Well.

I Always Export To max As IGES File Because I Want Its NURBS Structure Intact But If It Doesn't Matter To You Then Ofcourse OBJ File Will Be The Most Pleasent[Without Plugin That Is].

Anyway Thanks For Saying My IPOD Model is Nice tilite, I Appreciated It.

[tilite]

ok... excellent... alot of infomation to follow here. i postponed this thread till morning and somehow got stuck watching animations all night... its now 6am in Melbourne and i think i best be off to bed. i do want to resposed to these last few posts but i am sure my head is not in the right place at this very moment and i will certianly accidently forget something so ill just leave it till i get some rest and hopfully my ideas on the matter will develop more.

bracer i just noticed a variation on ipods on teh rhino site.

i do have one question at this moment for EVERYONE that veiws this thread... do u think there should be a extra program specific forum room for rhino??

ill get back to you all when i arise. i just had a tiny fiddle with ige files... no success, another task for morning :(

[gustojunk]

Hi Tilite,

It looks like you are using te wrong tools in Rhino to make fillets. Iinstead of FilletSurface or Sweeps, etc, join all the surfaces to be filleted and use the command FilletEdge, select all the edges you want to fillet, input the number you want and Rhino will figure the rest out. Rhino fillets are not bulletproof but it can do simple manifold geometry like what you show with no problem. For more questions on Rhino go to their support page, it's by far the best support team I've ever seen.

Good Luck

[andrewjohn81]

Rhino fillets one edge fine. Two edges? Still fine. It's when you add that third edge that it becomes a problem. Especially when it needs to be a differnt size. You must find many workarounds to solve the problem, such as the one that I suggested.
A patch is not a good surface. It is acceptable for surfacing models, but never good for renderable geometry.

Unless you have exhausted the extent of what a fillet can do, then you really wouldn't know why rhino's fillet tools are lacking. When you start to have anything close to a complex surface you must find workarounds.

As far as the support team, I would agree they are good, but I don't know about the best I've seen. I bugged them about their online help and they didn't even reply. However, I emailed them about a problem and the emailed back until the problem had been exhausted. It wasn't ever solved, but all the possiblities were exhausted. They were trying to tell me that their poly tools were perfect.

Yes, I think a Rhino forum would be a good idea. In fact, it has been suggested.
Go here to add your input to the poll. http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?t=218119

[-Vormav-]

Vormaz... i understand what ur saying but wouldnt that increase the polycount dramatically?
Not even half as much as a full-blown nurbs fillet, or single mesh smooth iteration.

[tilite]

gustojunk ok first off cool avatar:thumbsup:
gustojunk & andrewjohn81 & Bracer u have definetyle solved my fillet problem for a simple shape as a box but now it is my concern for a more complex corner. i have made a basic shape (attachment below)that would pose problems for me when i came to filleting. with only ussing fillet and patch no worries and it wouldnt take that long but then how does it convert into max. preferably i want to keep it as a NURBS file but if i have to mesh it thas ok.

so what i am asking is can u please fillet this object as effeciently as possible and then i can decipher your work :D dont be scared off this really is a simple model i just wanted to know how you handle it. (it would take me a minute or two fillet and the whole thing so hopfullt this may entice you.)

thanks alot guys.

if anyone else wants to take this simple model and give it a go please feel free i am keen to see.

[tilite]

ok ive just been trying to do this myself and i now know why i posted this thread... im actually really struggeling. 2 minutes my arse.. i knew it would take longer but this is killing me. everyone that visits this site please grap the zip and give it a go urself... i think i might offer a prize to the best help haha.
oh and drop annotations with the text tool if you think someone (me) might learn something, like this
http://img24.imagevenue.com/loc46/th_237_001.JPG (http://img24.imagevenue.com/img.php?loc=loc46&image=237_001.JPG)

ok best of luck

[wild-brendan]

I know for a fact that Rhino cannot fillet well. The only effective way to get a "good looking" fillet is to use blend to form a curve then rail it along edges, so u can simulate variable fillets. Another method is to use blend surface. Considering how 'passionate' you are about nurbs, i recommond u get some real software that will let you do it like drafting software...pitty it costs so much. There are plugins for both Rhino and Max to do it.

Try get a good demo of sumfin. I had some software called CadKay (Trial) which let u save and all for 30 days...a lil reg edit makes it last a little longer ;). Also, i have the same problem for exporting/importing to Max from Rhino. I was told there was a '.obj' file which store the nice nurbs files, but, i had no luck. Meyb u shoule look around for that.

As for the rendering, i just used the skylight, which does it real quick. I think max 4 and above have it. To use it, goto lights -> skylight and put one into the scene, doesnt matter where it goes. Hit '9' to bring up the advanced light settings and drop the combo box and select light tracer. Render. Dont forget to fiddle with the parameters until your bored shitless and disapointed with Max render. note: other lights may f&*k up the render.

Good luck with your exporting\importing with max (your gonna need it)

P.S. I luv NURBs too, they are soooo clean and soooo polyless

[Bracer]

Love To Help Pal But I Currently Do Not Have Rhino In My Com. :)

[tilite]

thanks brendan & bracer for your assistance if anyone still wants to give this a go please do so.. i would appreciate it very much.

thanks for the vote brendan, still waiting on u bracer, lol
and anyone else who comes across this thread make your opinion heard here
http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?t=243079

[andrewjohn81]

I didn't have time to create an image before I needed to set up another render, and I don't have photoshop on this computer, so the actual file will have to do. Some would be welcome to create an image if they wish.
I also can't view the image you posted tilite because of some stupid filter on the corporate firewall. It probably says entertainment in the header of the site or something.

I left the file at a fairly useful state. I usually try the easiest thing first, but I ended up having to do it the correct way.

You will see two floating fillets over one of the 4 fillets that failed. I only fixed that one the correct way.

The top fillet I used sweep 2. If you move it into place you will notice that it looks OK, but it isn't quite right. The fillet corner, or boundary surface, isn't tangent to the fillets themselves. The second try was to use rail revolve. That really should work. That could be a wonderful tool, but I've only had it work one time EVER. It looks ok from far away, but if you zoom in, you will notice that it actually didn't keep the revolve point common.
The third try was a simple blend surface. Sometimes you get lucky. This wasn't my case. I used that for the final shape, however.

I don't think the guys at rhino are very surface modelers because they mix parameterization. The fillets are all degree 2 and 3, but the corners must be 3 and 3. That won't do. Rebuild the surfaces there to make it have all 3 degree surfaces. If you are ever going to use this for rendering don't even ever bother with 2nd degree surfaces. There are many problems with those. use degree 1, 3, and 5 unless you have an extremely simple shape like a sphere or a pill.
Once you've rebuild the fillet radiuses then you need to show the cv's, like I have done in the file, for the radiuses and boundaries that you are going to target. Zoom in on the boundary and notice how the cv's don't match. Move the cv's of the boundary to match those of the matching radius.
Once you complete that you have positional tangency. That's usually good enough for max.
Now, if you want a really sweet surface then you need actual tangency.
You can accomplish this by drawing lines from one cv to the nex shared one on each fillet. Then extend those lines till they pass the boundary. The boundaries cv's (all of them) must lie somewhere on those lines. If you got this far then I'm assuming you can figure out the rest. If you didn't get this far then you need to do a bunch more tutorials.

You can use the match tool to fix one or two edges. The problem is, since rhino doesn't keep history, you will match one edge with tangency, and it will screw up the next one.

Keep your surfaces with similar parameterization if at all possible. Sometimes it isn't, and you must trim. For this case there should be no trims at all anywhere on that entire surface. Learn to model that way first. Then do it the other way.

[tilite]

thank you so much for the effort andrew

ive just opened it now so ill have a quick look and get back to you in a few hours or sometime tomorrow.

it seems to be a rather clean model... how long did it take?

edt: nice job!... im always keen on doing tutorials even if they are just beginer ones as you slways seem to learn somethign new... can u sugest some sites with helpfuls tuts? (this goes for eveyone!!)

[andrewjohn81]

rhino tuts? even the ones in the book kinda suck. They really are just teaching you tools, not how to model. Once you know the tools then look for nurbs tutorials, they don't have to be for Rhino. The one's I've seen that are specific to rhino aren't good. It's more about creating tangent surfaces than anything else.

I didn't really finish that model or anything, but that took me roughly 3 or 4 minutes.
I usually join the model. If it says that it is one closed polysurface, you are usually in good shape. If not, then you will have to use some of the analysis tools to check where the gap is. Explode that, then fix the pieces that have gaps and try joining again.

[gustojunk]

Hi Tilite,

Glad you like my avatar, it's my company logo.

I looked at your file. You have a topology issue here that leaves 4 open corners. Your top and bottom caps are made out of 2 untrimmed patches each that leaves Rhino clueless of how to fill the missing surface information. Here's a workaround for this fillet:

open your file
SelectAll
Join
MergeAllFaces
FilletEdge (input desired angle)
Done!

There are a few exceptions/workaround for all types of fillets that ones you know then you can fillet ANYTHING in Rhino. For some cases you need to do a lot of manual labor, but I can tell you that I have NEVER being stuck with an unfilleted model in Rhino, I cannot say the same about any other Nurbs package.

about your other couple of points:

1. I don't think a Rhino forum is a good idea here, just because the best Rhino users hang out all in one place and that includes the development team, it'd be hard to convince them to come here also, same way that it would be hard to convince some old drunks of changing bars :

http://www.rhino3d.com/support.htm (http://www.rhino3d.com/support.htm)


2. The best way to import rhino files to Max is using PowerRhinoToMax, from Npower software. You just have to make sure your normals are correct before opening the 3dm file in Max (very easy to do if you set the advance display settings in Rhino to show you a custom color for backsides in shaded view)

Good Luck

[andrewjohn81]

Don't go bashing other programs now. I could fillet anything in Maya or Studio tools that anyone else could fillet in Rhino. Many of the workarounds are the same. Alot of people just don't know the names of the different tools.

The reason I showed the workaround method instead of having one single surface on the top is to teach people the workaround because they are sure to come accross a slightly more difficult piece to fillet.

As soon as someone asks for multiple fillets they have to know those methods. I don't know any other way to do multiple radii in rhino. And I'm not even talking about variable fillets, just filleting one edge at a different size than another connecting edge.
That can prove to be very difficult in rhino, but everyone should know it can at least be done.
Of course, it's alot easier in maya or studio tools.

__________________________________

I agree with the npower. We recently purchased a few copies of that. It's increased our workflow speed from rhino into max alot. In most cases you don't even need to worry about the normal direction if you use 2 sided materials.
We try to check alot of the models, but when someone else modeled them and there are several thousand surfaces in the file it can be quite difficult to check through them all.

[Dimos]

Hello from me too, I am excited as well with the opening of this forum.
Now, about the filleting I fiddled around and I came up with error-free results. I will explain the things I did, because I do not know how to place images or attachments. First, I noticed the problems of the filleting on the area of the object in which the angle is accute. Then, I merged the two upper and the two lower surfaces, with the default settings (smooth=yes, tolerance=0.01, roundness=1). After that, I joined all the surfaces and I applied FilletEdge.

Info: Use the commands "ScreenCaptureToFile" or "ScreenCaptureToClipboard" (I hope I wrote them right) to create a snapshot of the active viewport

[tilite]

i haven't been threw the last few posts post yet but i will get to them... i need to know this *bangs head against wall.

this post is just for Dimos :) i just wanted to mention http://www.imagevenue.com/

its what i use to post images, its isnt the best means of doing it by far but it is suffiecent for now. this is what it offers:
Image Types Allowed: jpeg, jpg
maximum file size: 1.5Meg
unlimited storage period
unlimited bandwidth
no registration required

if anyone can beat that please let me know

so check that out then post your images simply by uploading them then ussing the 'hotlink' text specified for forums:thumbsup: dead simple... so i hope to see those pics up soon

[Dimos]

Thanks for the link tilite, quite good site for pictures! So, here is the illustration:

The problem I was refering is visible in these screenshots:

http://img13.imagevenue.com/loc248/th_0c8_fillettest_5.JPG (http://img13.imagevenue.com/img.php?loc=loc248&image=0c8_fillettest_5.JPG) http://img24.imagevenue.com/loc287/th_b52_fillettest_2.JPG (http://img24.imagevenue.com/img.php?loc=loc287&image=b52_fillettest_2.JPG) http://img13.imagevenue.com/loc230/th_c28_fillettest_3.JPG (http://img13.imagevenue.com/img.php?loc=loc230&image=c28_fillettest_3.JPG)

The first 2 pictures are the same area.

First, I merged (command: mergesrf) the highlighted surfaces (picture that follows)

http://img18.imagevenue.com/loc121/th_c68_fillettest_4.JPG (http://img18.imagevenue.com/img.php?loc=loc121&image=c68_fillettest_4.JPG)

Then I joined all the surfaces and finally I applied "FilletEdge" at the highlighted edges (next picture)

http://img9.imagevenue.com/loc291/th_0b5_fillettest_6.JPG (http://img9.imagevenue.com/img.php?loc=loc291&image=0b5_fillettest_6.JPG)

The result is this, on the same area as the the two first pictures

http://img15.imagevenue.com/loc121/th_e59_fillettest_1.JPG (http://img15.imagevenue.com/img.php?loc=loc121&image=e59_fillettest_1.JPG) http://img24.imagevenue.com/loc237/th_ff3_fillettest_7.JPG (http://img24.imagevenue.com/img.php?loc=loc237&image=ff3_fillettest_7.JPG)

All the other corners are of the same quality

[Azeiku]

Now, I'm fairly new to Rhino but it's the only program I've used so far.

The technique I use for fillets when the fillet command doesn't work is I create a pipe (same radius as the fillet should be) with the edge of the surfaces I want to get the fillet across. I use that pipe to trim the surfaces. Then I use the blend surface command.

That technique is something I use rather than trying the fillet. I know it's crappy that the actual command doesn't work well but this technique is awesome.

As for fillet with 3 surfaces.. such as the top corner of a cube. It really depends on the order that you do your fillets in. You do the vertical one first and then you do the top two horizontal edges.... including the curve at the end of the vertical edge. That should give you the nice rounded corner without having to do a patch.

-Azeiku

Here are screenshots of something SpinLand did to help out a guy on the renderosity site. This shows the order for 3 edges on a cube when doing fillets.
http://www.renderosity.com/photos/MSG2/Message2178759.jpg
http://www.renderosity.com/photos/MSG2/Message2178762.jpg
http://www.renderosity.com/photos/MSG2/Message2178765.jpg
http://www.renderosity.com/photos/MSG2/Message2178768.jpg

[tilite]

wow! ok dimos what you sugested has been sugested before and i did quickly try it but i was a bit lost to be frank... but with your illistrations its a pinch!! great stuff... so glad i sent you the imageview link hehe:thumbsup:

azeiku i can see that you posted only a minute after dimos (meaning when his post went threw you were still creating yours) and you are a beginer as you said so i have no problems with saying.... check out dimos's post haha... which im sure you already have.

isnt this great... this new rhino forum is great!! haha:)

now i know i have said it before but as soon as some time opens im going to try all these techniques and get back to everybody officially... not just for your sake, but mainly for mine.

i have been working flat out for a class that i have to present for in 8 hrs and its about 2.30am here and at this rate ill be up till 7... again!!:banghead:

so if any of you are good at max im about to post my newest porblem... that might save me some time getting someone else to tell me what to do quickly instead of fiddling till i get it right... so i will edit this as soon as the thread is up with a link so u may be able to help.

edt: ok so here is my max problem for those who may be able to help... cheers
http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?t=243594

[Azeiku]

tilite: Dimos did a great job explaining how he did it but my technique is different. Not the same at all. The technique I told you about is shown in this tutorial. Start at page 21.
http://wtdesign.flashex.com/Lofting_tut2_pages/Loft21.htm
Watch how he lofts his curves and then blends the surfaces. y@ from Renderosity wrote this tutorial and it's one way to build a car. But the point I want to make is the way he does his fillet. I've used this on 90 degree angles too. Except instead of creating circles at the different points and sweeping along a rail I just used the standard pipe command around the edge I want to smooth. pipe/split/blend Different then the technique used above.

-Azeiku

[EighthDecay]

sweet people are using that tutorial. lol

but yeah I was going to suggest just that also for a fillet. Just pipe or Sweep Rail some circles, make sure that the rail/path is extended past the edges of the surface that needs to be split. then delete all the split out sections and blend across.

I didn't read to full topic, but there are more than one way to do things, thats why I like rhino. :-)

[tilite]

sorry Azeiku i didnt mean any offense... i just found dimos' way to be simple and quick and extreemly effective not to say this way isnt. i would love to see the tutorial... but i cant seem to view the page... is it jsut me or is the link down...

and to quote eighthdecay "but there are more than one way to do things, thats why I like rhino. :-)"

agreed:thumbsup:

[Azeiku]

No offense taken. ;-) I just wanted make sure you realized it was different technique and not the same. That's all. ;-)

Like i said, no offense taken. Just wanted to give another way.

Azeiku

[andrewjohn81]

I also got a gateway timeout on that

Oh, BTW, I just started playing around with Rhino 4 WIP
It has a variable fillet. It works, but it isn't all that user friendly.
There are several options that I would change/add to make it easier to use. The main thing is to not use circles to show the radius. It should show an arc on the correct side of the surface. It would also be nice if you could change your mind on a previous radius that you did while you are still in the tool. It always sucks to do 20 radii and find out that you got the second one wrong. Starting over sucks.
It works though, not every time, but at least it makes creating variable fillets easier.

[EighthDecay]

tilite and andrewjohn81
yeah it for some reason or another just started happening.. Pretty rare that this happens, But I'll keep an eye on it and see if it works again or I'll bug my Admin dude on this issue.

[EighthDecay]

is it working now.. seems to on my end.

sorry for the hickup.

[tilite]

nice tut decay

[nate10184]

I used to struggle with fillets too. Infact this was really what held me back from finishing alot of my projects. Like many have noted, filletedge simply does not work for complex intersections of surfaces. This however really isn't a defficiency with Rhino, most the time there is a clear reason why filleting commands fail. I knew the only way to conquer this problem was to work backwards and figure out exactly how the program was going about creating the fillets so I could understand why it failed in certain cases.

After investigating I finally figured out the one command that probably helped more than any other. As others have stated the PIPE command is essential to creating fillets -- without it it is very difficult. By piping an edge then cutting the adjoined surfaces with the pipe, you can easily control the size of the fillet (the pipe command is great because you can vary the size of the pipe from beginning to end). Once you've made the cuts its just a matter of a SWEEP2 along the edges. Make sure you specify that the new surface has tangency with both of surfaces you are joining. When bringing more than 2 edges together it gets a bit more complicated but using NETWOKRSRF you can overcome most problems with ease.

I actually figured this out on my own but I later saw a tutorial somewhere outlining this same procedure. It is sometimes slow and tedious but it gives the user total control of the fillets. It was also helpful because now I understand exactly why fillet commands fail and what needs to be changed to correct this. So far I've yet to encounter a problem I couldn't solve using this method. I've been planning to write a tutorial on this and other small but vital techniques but I never seem to have time. Hopefully I'll be able to get that done some time in the future. Glad to finally see a Rhino forum hopefully it will be a big help to everyone.

[krembo99]

power booleans for rhino ......

I am also doing arch viz , and nothing i got so far has it´s power and control..

That goes also for the max version actually, but if you want things made in rhino, i think that is the right choice ...

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