Combining vertices and edges to a single one

[puzzledpaul]

Initial thought re the situation depicted in (1) is that the there's no geometry between the verts - even tho' they may occupy identical co-ordinates.

Given this situation, I'd enter Tweak mode, grab a vert there (as it can only grab one, by definition) and 'wiggle' it around a bit to see what happens :)

If you open up a gap, then there's your problem... (can always use Undo to revert to initial arrangement, so nowt's lost)

If this is the case, then it's probably likely to affect (2) as well.

I'd try this for starters.

pp

(uploading the file is also another option, so others can have a shufties)

[Inflater]

Hello puzzledpaul,

thank you very much for the quick reply. I fear the model I’m working on is a bit to big to upload and one has to search for the questionable vertices and edges I speak of. But I will post a „making of desaster“ so anyone can see what had happened.

I instantly followed your advice and after „Tools -> Tweak“ on one of the vertices in (1) I got this:

http://www.cyberflating.com/forumpics/cgtalk01_3.jpg


You can see: I have a gap! :blush:

I’m not really sure but I had in mind at one point of the construction process I used “Hide” on a face to get rid of unwanted faces in this area. Maybe there is the source of confusion? But as I told, I will post a “making of” with the resulting model attached (hopefully tomorrow). :)

Regards,
The Inflater

[m3ng]

Since you have a gap, you should be able to do 1 of 2 things to weld those verts.

1) Select the object and execute a "Weld" command. This, however, will weld ALL verts that fall within the set tolerance. It will select the end result verts to show you where it has welded geometry together.

2) Not sure why the Cleanup feature won't fix 2 verts on top of each other. You can try selecting the two verts and type "C" (default keyboard shortcut) to Connect them. This will create an edge between the two verts, which you can then Collapse to effectively weld those specific verts.

Good luck!

[puzzledpaul]

<< Since you have a gap, you should be able to do 1 of 2 things to weld those verts. >>

Without knowing more about the scenario, anything's worth a try - but if the verts (and the 2 faces they're on) share a common edge (amongst other scenarios) neither will work.

Try this
Create a cube
Split top face into 2 rectangles
Select both faces and Extrude > Normal (or Y ) a bit

Try Object | Weld on whole object
and Vert |Connect on either pair of verts shariing the same co-ords at the top of the extruded blocks.

<< It will select the end result verts to show you where it has welded geometry together >>
Yes and no - as under some circumstances it can give false / misleading results.

Check the Bridge / Weld page here www.puzzledpaul.com (http://www.puzzledpaul.com)


pp

[JPGargoyle]

Well, from what I see, I think you don't have a choice but to delete and reconstruct some geometry.

You can try selecting that big middle face, hit 'e' to select that faces edges, click on the left, right and three bottom edges to deselect them (leaving only the top/duplicated edge selected) and delete it.
Then I would do a cleanup go get rid of any remaining duplicate verts.
Then select the top left and bottom left vertices from the "hole" and hit 'c' to connect them.
Repeat with the right ones.
Then remove any addicional edge created during this process.

I think this will get your problem fixed.


Best regards.

[Inflater]

Hello again,

thank you to all for the advice regarding my strange little problem. To get a better inside look I have arranged a picture with a broader view on my object. You can see it will become some sort of a pillar made of bricks. For that I extruded the bricks from the main face. But after that I had to push back a part of one brick back into the pillar to get room for the pipes that will later become a balustrade.

http://www.cyberflating.com/forumpics/cgtalk01_4.jpg

Here is basically what I have done to become my strange double vertices and edges:

First I will form the brick:

http://www.cyberflating.com/forumpics/cgtalk01_5ac.jpg

5a: RMB, Cube, select the face in the positive Z direction
5b: RMB, Inset, „50%“
5c: RMB, Extrude, Normal, 0.5

After these three steps I have my little brick, like those on the pillar. Now comes the interesting part. I want to push back a part of the brick into the pillar to form again the cement. Like one of those bricks is broken. So I do the following:

http://www.cyberflating.com/forumpics/cgtalk01_5df.jpg

5d: select the four edges the span in the X direction, <3>, <C>
5e: select the new formed middle face
5f: RMB, Extrude, Normal, -0.5

As you can see I do have now come left alone faces, the two marked and two more exactly on the other side of these two faces.

http://www.cyberflating.com/forumpics/cgtalk01_5g.jpg

5g: selected single leftover faces

I do have to get rid of them.

http://www.cyberflating.com/forumpics/cgtalk01_5h.jpg

5h: select all four face, RMB, Hide

http://www.cyberflating.com/forumpics/cgtalk01_5i.jpg

And now we have this strange happening, that there are some vertices and some edges on exactly the same position (5i).

I’m sure there is something really wrong with this process. :blush: Before step (5c) I could have split the face like in step (5d) and only extrude the resulting outmost faces. The problem was I constructed the whole pillar with the bricks and after that I had the idea to push back a face inwards for the bars.

Regards,
The Inflater

[puzzledpaul]

Nice pics, btw ... style seems familiar somehow :) (although I'd dump the grid)

One way would be:
(5h) ... select the 2 vertical edges at the bottom of the 'valley'
Scale Y a little, say 90% - this opens up the gap at top and bottom
Select the 4 pairs of verts associated with these 2 gaps and connect (do this in 2 separate ops, top first, then bottom ... else you'll get extra unwanted edges during the connect op)
Select the unwanted edges top and bottom and Dissolve (then cleanup) - or use rmb option on dissolve.

To avoid this in the future, I'd suggest:

(5d) - select the 3 faces associated with the middle bit (top/bottom and longer vertical face)
Face | Dissolve
Select the 4 verts at the base of the 'valley'
Vert | Connect.

pp

[Inflater]

Nice pics, btw ... style seems familiar somehow (although I'd dump the grid)
Hehe, got a good teacher! :)

(5h) ... select the 2 vertical edges at the bottom of the 'valley'
Huh? I really don’t know what you mean. In the vertical direction? Aren’t these the edges that span along the Y axis? Why then at the bottom of the valley?

Your other advice should look like this:

http://www.cyberflating.com/forumpics/cgtalk01_6.jpg

6a: select the 3 faces associated with the middle bit (top/bottom and longer vertical face)
6b: Face | Dissolve
6c: Select the 4 verts at the base of the 'valley'
6d: Vert | Connect.

Ahm, this does not look like as you ment it to be, am I right?

Regards,
The Inflater

[puzzledpaul]

Hopefully this helps :)

(I scaled the width of the front of the extrusions to aid clarity from a single viewpoint)

1-5 original problem
6-10 suggestion re how to avoid in future

Disolving the 3 faces in (7) to get (8) leaves you a single (very) weird shaped face that can be re-connected in several different ways - the original organisation being one, the required one being another. The fact that it's totally 'unflat' is irrelevant - you're the boss and you tell it how you want it to be :)

http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v492/pppix/valleycombo.gif

pp


(unlike valleys IRL, I used a bit of poetic licence and mine was running vertically, rather than the usual horizontal ones ...)

The inside face on pic (17) here is still a single face :)
http://www.geocities.com/paulthepuzzles/aacurlycable.html

[Inflater]

Hopefully this helps...

...

Disolving the 3 faces in (7) to get (8) leaves you a single (very) weird shaped face that can be re-connected in several different ways - the original organisation being one, the required one being another. The fact that it's totally 'unflat' is irrelevant - you're the boss and you tell it how you want it to be
I tried this on my own and understand the following: Instead of pushing a face inwards with “Extrude” and fiddling with the mangled geometry I simply have to “Dissolve” the faces and reconnect the edges. So I did the following:

http://www.cyberflating.com/forumpics/cgtalk01_7.jpg





7a: Select the three faces I want to get rid off
7b: RMB, “Dissolve” or simply <Bksp>
Because I haven’t scaled the front faces (the left and the right one) other than in your example I got this strange looking face. It’s the same view like in my example above (6c). Just the fact that it is looking strange puzzled me. So I continue:


7c: change to “Vertices” mode <V> and deselect the four front vertices; the four inner vertices are still selected (your bottom of the valley)
7d: connect them with <C> and there we are
This is really great! :) Thank you very much!

The inside face on pic (17) here is still a single face
http://www.geocities.com/paulthepuzzles/aacurlycable.html
If no-one already told you: Your site is really great. It is not only essential for Wings3D-Beginners but also a valuable source of inspiration. Thank you very much for the time you spent in making your site and keep up the good work!

:applause::applause::applause:

Regards,
The Inflater

[puzzledpaul]

<< Instead of pushing a face inwards with “Extrude” and fiddling with the mangled geometry I simply have to “Dissolve” the faces and reconnect the edges ... >>

Yep - that's it :)

Once you've dissolved a mass / group of faces (no matter how weirdly contorted etc) You can then re-connect any way you want - an important concept to grasp, imo ...

Glad you're 'sorted' and thx for the comments...

pp

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